"Traitors get no admin protection"

[Atheist Sex God]

I'm sure Scooter and Komrk know why I'm making this, but it's actually just a thought I have. Basically, my story, in general -

I had access to an area, and had built an AI Upload in an atmos closet. Uploaded the law and whatnot, had PDA in hand when two Techs and a QM find me. Now, I'm sure it looks suspicious to anyone, but what do they do? They wait about two seconds and proceed to kill me. Right there, on the spot. No questions. No call for help. Just murder. Upon ahelping it, I learned that since I was a traitor, I don't get any admin protections. So, since three murderboning people decided to kill me for being near a suspect area? I lose being a traitor.

Fair enough, you might say. You were in that area, it was obviously me, etc etc.. But I have another thought.

Random greysuit is walking down the hallway when he encounters a traitor, perhaps another greysuit. Of course, the two greysuits demand dominance and fight it out, with the original one walking. Now, the second one was a traitor. Does that mean that, simply because he was in the wrong place and got murderboned, he gets no protections?

Now, true, the two stories I've posted are severely different. In one, there's reasonable suspicion and in the other, it's just a case of greyshirt grief. However, getting back to my original point, I believe that Traitors - Until they show traitorous cause or reason for being a traitor, should have full protections. While it may be true that this would be hard to monitor, it would not be impossible. For instance, I did not get searched, had PDA in hand and was most definitely attempting to contact someone about it. I was a mime, and could not say it via the radio, for instance. And because of that, I was killed instantly. No trial. No search or investigation. Just flat out murdered. Given the circumstance, one would think that I had otherwise been griefed. If someone ELSE had built the upload and I had been murdered over that, the issue would be much different. But because I just so happened to be standing next to it, unable to call it out, and just so happened to be a traitor, I was killed on the spot. With no admin protection over it.

I understand that the point still stands that I was a traitor, but I believe that under the circumstance, killing me went way overboard. And while it may be an IC issue, it is also an OOC issue as well. Because people who vigilante as the three did could potentially find someone in the same situation as I found myself in, and kill them just to find the person is innocent. Traitors should have at least some admin protection - And though what they told me, "Grief and be griefed" may be true in some cases, in my case, I had no probable cause other than the fact I was standing next to the AI upload.

Enough ranting about my personal story, I do wish for your opinions about traitors not having admin protections. I think I've made my point clear, that in certain circumstance they should be allowed protections. And I understand that in others, admin protections are a moot point on them. However, traitors having no protections whatsoever? That just seems.. Wrong, to me.

[Deleted]

If we've got evidence that someone is griefing a traitor without knowing he's a traitor they will be punished. This always has been something that we enforce and will continue to be. Admin help it, it's their decision at the end of the day if the suspicion is well earned.

[austupaio]

For me, it's not clear cut 'if you're a traitor then you get what's coming' but it is very hard to decide what's reasonable suspicion and what it is not if you're not directly observing the traitor in question.

I can and have told people off for killing a traitor without due cause just as I have let it slide when people kill an innocent who was acting very suspicious.

Ultimately, ahelp it with as much detail as possible and hope the admin feels like reading through the history enough to help.

[DrunkenFlyingDemoman]

Generally, "Grief and Be grieffed" applies here, "Grief" being defined as "Assaulting or Attacking someone for no clear or little reason".

However, the fact of reasonable suspicion and random act is clearly defined, we could let off slip someone to murdered a traitor over some suspicion, but, an obviously random act of violence(Guy grabs a fire extinguisher and smashes the nearest guy in sight seconds after joining, nearest guy happens to be traitor) will get punished as if grief against a non-antagonist.

[NotFoos]

I've been killed multiple times as a traitor, most of the time when I'm a traitor I will use the uplink implant. But I ALWAYS make sure to do it in the bathrooms with the cameras cut and the lights off. Then I make sure to dispose of the box with cameras cut and lights off, usually in a dorm locker.

Anyways I've been flat out griffed multiple times, every single time I've tried to explain that they had literally no reason to suspect me as an antag, every single time I've been told traitors don't have admin protection. Personally I think this is a rather lame approach, for if i simply wasn't a traitor, they would have killed me anyways and THEN they would have been banned for griff.
I'm sorry I cannot remember any specific stories right now but this has definitely happened to me a lot, it's rather frustrating. I do know that one time the guy who killed me killed several others for no reason and was banned, shortly after I was revived, but that was only because he kept on griffin.

[Leadpoisoning]

It's not fair that a traitor can be griefed for no reason. It's also not fair that traitors on a murder spree can kill other players unrelated to their objective and not be considered griefers. The idea is that the unfairness balances out.