Standing challenge to Facepunch complainers

[Leadpoisoning]

I've seen the thread. There are a lot of complaints about our server. It upset me that people were complaining there, where their complaints weren't being addressed or seen by most of our admins, so I have asked, twice, that people relay specific complaints to me, with names of people involved and preferably also with round logs.

No one responded. Absolutely fucking no one.

People stopped complaining for a couple pages, then once my request was out of sight, it started right back up.

So I'm posting this here as a permanent announcement at the top of all our boards. Anyone who sees this, please bring it to the attention of people in the thread on Facepunch.

Bring me your complaints. Bring me your cries of "GRIEF" and "SHITLORD" and "BADMIN." Bring me character names, ckeys, screenshots, and roundlogs, and the hammer of judgment will fall. Speak, and your grievances will be heard.

I don't read the Facepunch thread anymore, since Garry relegated blue members to second class citizens, and also because most of the people complaining there just like to bitch and moan and don't really care about problems being fixed. So post it here, or send me a PM. I check this forum every week day. You will not be ignored. You do not need an account to post in this board. You also don't need to fill out any pesky form templates like in the normal ban appeals area! Just churn all your misgivings about the server and your treatment by our admins into one big wall-o'-text and I will happily sift through it to find what I need.

If you don't have evidence, if you didn't save a log or a screenshot or don't remember any names; if that is the case, I invite you to come back and try again, but this time come prepared for war. Puush is an excellent and free service for taking screenshots on the fly. You can also record an HTML log of the round by right clicking and selecting "log" (don't try to type in a name, this fucks it up; just click save and change the name later after the round ends, it will default to the date/time/server name). Finally, you can literally copy-paste an entire round's worth of text into a Word document or rich text file and it will transfer with formatting and colors intact. Stop bitching and do something about it.

Justice Counter: 1 referred issues as of 4/23/2013

[Deleted]

I can't fucking agree enough with this.

We naively asked to bring logic and rational to the table, have a semi civilised discussion or complaint about a problem or an admin. Some evidence, some actual legitimate complaints, anything. We did want to try and better the server for the players, to make sure they didn't feel their suggestions and complaints would be instantly rejected or dismissed because of experiences they've had with other servers but a few people just started an unjustified bandwagon and ruined it all.

We were met with both silence and further insults. Of course us pointing all this out might not glaze most of you, you might read this and just go ahead and post about it for a couple of pages "lol fakestation desperate 4 players time to grif" "must be 2 shitmin to realise their shitmin" "not worth the effort" but I sincerely hope the players who actually care and are competent enough to raise legitimate complaints and suggestions will utilise this and help us out here.

I'm personally determined to stop any shittery or biased activities within the admin team, hell if I saw 5 complaints in a row that showed me reviving myself during a fight, blowing people up who called me names in OOC, permanently banning someone who called me a fag in admin help then I'd fucking de-admin myself on the spot. Whenever I see any admins doing shit like this I make it a point to call them out on it, of course nobody probably believes me on it but at least I know I do. If you've got a problem or a complaint, bring it up on the forums or approach a senior admin about it rather than deciding you need to kill 15 people and get banned to make a point. That's just childishly counterproductive.

We used to ban people with reasons like "dumb" and "fag", we used to have admins who'd spawn 400 hostile mobs in the station and mute OOC, we used to have admins who'd be running around rejuvenating themselves and antagonists and much more a year or two ago. We've improved, we're still improving, we're not shitty and know when to admit when we've goofed. We basically now want people to prove us wrong, prove we're still shit, complain away. Sure I get frustrated when I spend a while writing shit like this up and trying to solve problems in a civilized manner; only to have to see the response "butthurt badmin" if anything it just proves our point. So we're treating you with respect we'd appreciate the same courtesy.

Also at the end of the day we're fine if you don't want to play on here because you feel it'll never be good but that's no reason to be preaching against us and inciting unjustified hate.

[forthfrot]

TL;DR

[Elowin]

if you wanted people to post here, it might have helped if you actually linked it rather than just rating every complaint dumb
and instead of posting about shit admins, i'm going to post the much bigger issue of shit rules
first of all

An administrator’s decision is final.
If you feel you were banned for the wrong reason, then you may appeal your ban on the forums. It will be looked at by several admins rather than just the banning one.
When an admin has declared an action “valid” or “legitimate” it is because he is unable to divulge information which might ruin the round, they can’t be incorrect or wrong by saying this.

i understand why this rule is in place, but in my experience admins simply use it as a "no im right and you're wrong" button which is bad

shitty rule numero dos
Don’t have objectives? You’re not a traitor!
Even though you selected an antagonist role in the pre-game lobby, this does not automatically make you an antagonist.
If you are not an antagonist or sanctioned by an admin/event to do so, antagonist actions (murder, grief, mass sabotage) are strictly not allowed.

ok first of all this rule makes me laugh
anyway, this rule is terrible because murder is very often completely necessary
let's say there is a shitty captain who neglects his post and goes about looting things from everywhere to build a batcave
now you might say "oh but you could just strip him of his access" but no, no you cannot, because guess what, captains armor has stun resistance, and guess what, that stun resistance makes stuns not last long enough to cuff him, so the only option is, you guessed it, murder

oh and then on top of this your coders are the worst
seriously, achievements? that was totally necessary 

i think hope you changed this by now, but holy shit how could you even allow that terrible fucking armory to exist in the first place, let alone for nearly as long as it did

i haven't actually witnessed this ingame, but i hear you've added a new alien type which is apparently super fast, to which i can only respond with what the fuck were you thinking

and finally the changes you made to windows are hitler

[Deleted]

You're one of the few people I know on the thread who isn't a straight up griefer, I'm saying that because the other people who complain literally follow the basis of "Server is shit, won't let me have fun at other peoples expense" so thank you for having a semi reasonable post. I apologise if it seemed immature but there's not much I can say or do on that thread anymore.

I'm the one who rated three of your posts dumb because you declared us stupid because we don't condone murders of shitlers and terrible players and that we have nothing to do with facepunch or any right to use the name, because whenever I try to actually post to defend us or have a civilised debate I get 12 dumbs and several very stupid and insulting posts just trying to counter everything not even give us a chance.

Foos and several other admins are regular facepunchers as well as quite a few of our regular players but not all of them post in the thread which I can understand might give the illusion that we're not a "true" facepunch server. Don't take this the wrong way but 7/8 regulars in the thread who feel we're lying and being shit by using the name versus the 40-60 people we get in peak times who enjoy the server would make it completely unreasonable to drop the name. It was founded by facepunchers, is played by facepunchers and there have been SEVERAL attempts over the past 3 years to create a "TRUE FACEPUNCH" server under several aliases and they've all died off and not worked. If we're not a true facepunch server and facepunchers obviously did know about the existance of them all they had their own right to not play on our server and boycott it but clearly they must've been having fun or not overly cared about it. But this at the end of the day is up to Foos and we'd support him either way.

Re the "i understand why this rule is in place, but in my experience admins simply use it as a "no im right and you're wrong" button which is bad" The existence of this thread is for FP'ers who have specific complaints, if there are any admins that have been literally banning you for shit reasons just because they're in the right please appeal it or bring it to someone's attention. One of the reasons we made the rules is so that different admins can't have different punishments and their own sets of rules.

Regarding shitty rule numero dos, I can't really say anything here that you'll be happy about. You were an admin for a fairly long time you know how uppity people get when they're killed by a non-antag for a sketchy reason. Killing someone because you hate them, you think they're useless, they're being a dick to you etc. isn't valid and I'm not all sure that would change. If there is a head who is being an utter idiot and has done something truly mutiny worthy, admin help the hell out of it. If he's being a dipshit and just generally ruining the round with his antics he WILL be jobbanned. If he refused to give you all access or arrested you for committing a crime that on the other hand does not make him a shit head. At the end of the day what justifies murder for a few people differs from what the majority feel does.

I agree I do find the lack of half windows a pain in the arse now but effort went into finding another solution and none could reliably be found. They were causing a lot of problems and overhead with the code as well as a massive source of lag and strain whenever a bomb went off. I've personally found explosions much more smooth and less server freezing since.

That's my 2 cents, I'm just glad you can vent your legitimate complaints here from now on. Foos and Lead will also probably be looking/responding incase you're worried that I might be biased or something.

[Marde]

I'll answer somethings about the code.

Achievements: It may not seem like it, but the achievements are not hosted on the server, instead it uses a Byond HUB that the proc that unlocks achivements calls to unlock the achievement. We try to make achievements as non-meta as possible and vague in how you can get them as well as enforcing long bans for revealing them. Also achievements are completely 100% optional, if you don't want to go for them; don't go for them. Its not like you are being forced do to it.

Emergency Armory: I know you might have had this occur a few times while adminning, Captain, HoP, Hos, Assistant or Warden intends to grief and grabs every gun possible from the armory and starts killing people. By the time someone adminhelps, several people are now dead, the captain left as soon as he was PM'd. With the swipe based system of two people, it alerts everyone that shit is going down and be prepared to die. The emergency armory is designed for *gasp* emergencies. It still houses the energy guns you need, it can still be used at the start of the round, and it can still be silently emagged open without the alert.

Half Windows: You know how half windows allow you to stand on the same tile as the half window? It checks for almost every single item that moves into the space; constantly. It is just not once or twice. Every half window has to check if something is the same tile as it can move through it. That provides a massive bit of lag seeing as that check becomes one of the most called checks. Not only that, half windows were bugged to the point that you can still do certain things through them, like strip someone.

Aliens: We ported the new things over from TG.

[Ellywelly]

repliyan to scooters wall of taxt

about the achievements
So? None of what you said is relevant at all to my actual problem with achievements, namely that they are completely and utterly useless, pointless and unnecessary.

to emergency armory
hahaahahahahahaahhahahah
So basically you don't want to actually administrate things, and instead just make things a massive pain in the butt to use, in the hopes that people won't be assed to griff then. GG

about windows
I can see why you did it, but that doesn't change the fact that the way you did it is hitler.

and aliums
I thought that half the reason you even branched off from TG in the first place was so you didn't have to deal with all the retarded ass things their coderbus does.

and finally, scooter is a faget

now for fraggys wall of taxe

about fappunch rant
I don't consider FPS a Facepunch server, I probably never really will, but I understand that you can't really change your name at this point, so that's that.

about about shitty rule number one
eh

aboot aboot shitty rule numero dos
Well, I guess that's that then.
If I can't even kill complete and utter shitheads, I honestly just don't really see any reason to play on FPS anymore.

[Deleted]

At the end of the day every single person has a different opinion and idea of what constitutes a shithead. Most players are apparently more tolerant and would rather the admin deal with them lest they end up causing drama or being forced to kill them. If that doesn't fit your play style then fair enough, but that doesn't make us a "shit" server for not allowing murder unless it's self defence or extremely justified. All I want out of this is to try and deal with any particular issues or bans that aren't sound or rules that could be improved so everyone wins. Allowing murder of bad players doesn't let the bad player win, he's just been killed without actually getting any helpful advice as to why he's just been killed and we're pretty much bound to deal with the killer.

[Leadpoisoning]

Necro time.

1)I did link this thread on FP. It got pretty much 0 attention in the several hours that I monitored it, including ratings or mentions in later posts. This leads me to conclude that many of the people who discuss their issues with the server on the FP thread do not actually have any desire for resolution; they are venting and/or publicly justifying why they are no longer playing here.

2) Murder in self defense is still allowed. I won't comment on the whole shitheads thing except to say that usually an admin can be persuaded to help with that kind of issue.

3) Achievements being useless/pointless is not really a relevant point in the first place. At least two thirds of SS13's content is not essential to the gameplay. Clowns, mimes, the courtroom, the bar, science/toxins, the chapel, atmospherics, robotics, the janitor--you could remove any and all of these and none of the gamemodes would be broken. Arguing against a feature because it doesn't affect the core gameplay is not applicable in SS13.

4) Finally, I have to ask: what would make a server an official/representative Facepunch server? I mean, short of literally being resurrected SpacePunch.

[ppi]

I like when admins respond to a kill being legit or not, it doesnt change anything, he is at traitor, changeling, rev, cultist, irrelevant, because i would find out that being dead. So that part can be silly, but again i see why, people tend to metagame.
Shitheads needs to be somewhat dealt with, because usually they grief more then traitors these days.
Overall there is little to complain about, other then shitheads, there might be a few bugs and glitches, but they will be repaired eventually so no issue there.

[Leonard Washington]

Maybe some here will disagree with my position, but I'm going to tell you (as briefly as I can) what happened tonight..





I was the Captain, and within 5 minutes of round start the bridge and my office had been broken into and vandalized. I had one security officer on shift, with two detectives. Things went to shit quick, and eventually I caught different people breaking into my office, who then attacked me and ran off. Twice that happened, and my security force could not seem to help me arrest the people responsible.





I had been in contact with the AI the whole round, it was following my commands and being very helpful. At one point it suggested to me in a private message that i go to its chamber and install a protection module, or security module.. or whatever the one is that issues a 4th law about protecting a single person. I did that and set it to protect me.





Then the crew flipped out about it. I'm not sure why still, but they all started bitching and talking about the law semantics and how that law 4 could override earlier laws and blah blah blah.. And on EVERY SS13 wiki i've ever read, it doesn't matter what order the laws go in, if you state something in a later law, the AI is free to interpret it literally if it chooses so (usually as long as it doesn't allow it to start killing people, which this obviously didn't provided no one attacked me).





But people kept bitching, so out of spite/humor I installed a 5th, free form law that stated that two crew members who were specifically making a big deal about the law about protecting me and trying to tell the AI not to listen to that law were to be regarded as not human, but station test monkeys. So the AI would not harm them, but unfortunately it could not understand anything they said or any of their commands.





At this point the crew freaked out. For some reason they interpreted the law as meaning that the AI could kill those two crew members (which it obviously did NOT approve). Eventually the crew broke in to the AI upload chamber, where I was presently hiding, and several (4 or 5) non-antagonist characters broke into the AI upload chamber, and attacked me, the captain, cuffed me to a chair, stripped me, and left me there the rest of the round.





So I complained to the admin that I had not broken any rules with the laws that I had set, but several people had broken rules by being non-antag characters and all attacking the captain, but nothing was done.. In fact the two admins present threatened to job ban me, claiming that my laws encouraged the AI to perform violence. I strongly disagree. I think this is in incredible injustice to someone that frequents this server and always makes a point to follow all space law and server rules and just enjoy a fun space simulation role playing game.





So there. I call bullshit on your admins.





I didn't take the time to log in, but if anyone really cares to address this problem and respond, I do have logs to back up what I'm saying.

[Marde]

Make an account and post them here via attachment or just toss them into pastebin, I'll take a look.